How Union with Christ Changes Everything

Amy Gannett

That union with Jesus is unshakable and it’s not going to change. So on a Monday morning, when I feel like all these identities are warring against one another or pulling me in different directions, I can say, You know what, I’m not ultimately a ministry leader, I’m not ultimately a business owner. I’m not ultimately a mom or a wife. I am ultimately a person saved by Jesus, and He abides in Me, and I abide in Him. That is who I am, because I belong to Christ.

Heather Ferrell

Welcome to the gospel coalition podcast, equipping the next generation of believers, pastors and church leaders to shape life and ministry around the gospel. On today’s episode, you’ll hear a conversation with Joanna Kimbrell and Amy Gannett as they discuss our union with Christ.

Joanna Kimbrel

Amy has her masters of divinity from Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. She’s also the author of a book called Fix your eyes, and it’s basically a systematic theology, which is why I knew that you would be an excellent person to have this conversation with, also the founder of tiny theologians and the Bible study schoolhouse. And there’s so much else I could say, but I’m very excited

Amy Gannett

to have you on today. I’m so glad to be here. This is one of my very favorite topics well, and that’s the thing, when I reached

Joanna Kimbrel

out to you, and I said, Amy, I want to do a deep dive with you. I’m thinking union with Christ, but I would love to hear your ideas. You sent back in a text message, all caps, “YES!”

Joanna Kimbrel

Tell me. Why are you so excited about this topic?

Amy Gannett

I think this topic is one of the most unsung heroes of soteriology, which is just a study of salvation, theological term for a study of salvation in Western Christianity today, I think we don’t give it credit for what it is. And for me, when I first started exploring this theological topic in college, when I was first taught it, it opened up my eyes to see my own salvation, the salvation of others, in a new theological light. But it was also that theological insight also brought so much richness to my personal relationship with Jesus and fix your eyes my systemic theology book for the lay person really is all about how our theology leads us to worship, and I have found in my own heart and also in the Christian community that I serve. A lot of us think of ourselves as either thinking Christians or feeling Christians. We either think of ourselves as theologically minded or heartfelt worshipers, but the doctrine of union with Christ just touches so deeply on the theological reality of Scripture proclaims to us about what it means to be saved, but it also brings such richness to our personal communion with Jesus. So wherever you find yourself on that spectrum, you’re going to grow in the opposite direction, because we’re all called to be thinkers and worshipers, theologians who worship God. And I think this doctrine just beautifully brings these things together and grows us towards Christ.

Joanna Kimbrel

I totally agree. And you know, the first time that I really heard about this doctrine, first I thought, Wait, What? What? What is going on here? Why haven’t I heard more about this. And then there’s all often this gap that we sense in our Christian life where we think, Well, I’m learning this stuff, and I know that I’m saved. I have no idea what that means for my day to day. And this doctrine for me, this idea of union with Christ, really transformed the way that I view what it means to walk in relationship with Christ in the everyday. Yes, I’m also very excited

Amy Gannett

to get nerdy about it. I’m glad we get nerd about it together talking

Joanna Kimbrel

to a fellow Bible nerd about this. So okay, it’s a topic that we don’t talk about very often, so help us just begin to wrap our minds around this and kind of basic what, what is union with Christ? What are we talking about?

Amy Gannett

Yeah, so we’re talking in the in the world of theology. We’re talking about salvation. What does it mean to be saved? And we see this language all throughout Scripture. We can impact some of those scriptures throughout this conversation as we want to, but it basically is the understanding that when we come to God through Christ, in faith, by Christ’s blood alone, we are not just made right with God, sort of forensically or on paper, but we’re made right with God because We are united to the Son of God, Jesus Himself by His Spirit. And so it’s this understanding of salvation that says it’s the opposite of take it into heaven, salvation theology where God gives us something that represents our salvation. One. It’s the belief that God did not in his in the death and resurrection of Jesus, give us a ticket into heaven and out of hell. That’s not what salvation is. Salvation is actually God didn’t give us something. He gave us himself. And so our salvation is not something that Christ gives us apart from giving us his very person in union, through faith by His Spirit. So it’s a way of talking about our salvation that isn’t sort of like on paper I made right with God. It’s a way of talking about salvation by means of being united to the Son of God by His Spirit, and therein lies our salvation. It’s the difference between saying that Jesus went to the cross and rose from the tomb in order to give me salvation or inform me salvation. It’s Jesus actually gives me salvation by giving me himself. So that’s the doctrine of union with Christ in miniature.

Joanna Kimbrel

Okay, yeah, and I think that some language that has really helped me wrap my mind around that is the idea that what is true of Christ, then is true of us? Or what is his is ours. And I’ve also heard this language of we are in Christ, and Christ is in us. So there, yeah, there’s, there’s this union. And I think when I start to think about union with Christ, I think, okay, is this like a figure of speech? Sure, no, is this a way that the Bible talks about our salvation in order to help us understand it? Are we literally united to Christ, or is it just kind of a word picture? Yeah. What are your thoughts? Sure.

Amy Gannett

Well, Scripture is pretty clear that those who are in Christ, it uses this language throughout those who have placed their faith in Jesus are found in Christ. Now there are so many places, especially Paul in the epistles, says that believers are in Christ. This is language used in the New Testament to actually describe what it means to be a Christian is to be found in Christ. So while it is, in a sense, a word picture, because that language of being in gives us a visual for what it means to be saved. It is also literal a lot of times, I think in Christian circles, maybe in the West, maybe in our Christian circles, the Holy Spirit we often think of as like this strange cousin among the Trinity, sort of like the Holy Spirit. We’re like. We know who God, the Father is, the God of the at the dawn of time, the Creator. We know who the Son is. He was incarnated, died and rose again. The Holy Spirit, mysterious, does a lot of work. We forget often that the Spirit who indwells us in salvation is the Spirit of Christ so very literally in salvation, we are united to the person of Christ by His indwelling Spirit. It is not some abstract, mythological spirit that indwells us, it is the Spirit of Jesus who dwells within us in salvation and so in a very real way, in a way that maybe is maybe it’s helpful for us to think in these terms, a lot of times, because we are in such a tangible, driven culture, it’s easy for us to think physical things are more real than spiritual things, and that’s not true in every culture around the globe, but in Scripture, a spiritual reality is more lasting, more true, more eternal, more permanent, more real than physical things. So the spiritual union that we experience with Jesus is more real than we can imagine. I think

Joanna Kimbrel

that that spirit piece, you know, we talk this as a spiritual union, it’s in the sense that the Holy Spirit, like you’re saying, is what binds us to Christ. And so, yeah, it’s pretty mind blowing, because absolutely feel like this esoteric, kind of far off thing. And it’s true that we can’t fully wrap our minds around it, but the fact that there is a literal spiritual union happening between us and Christ is pretty remarkable. And you know, I think as you look throughout Scripture, there are all of these pictures that it gives us to kind of help us understand what this looks like. I think about how we’re referred to as the body of Christ with Christ as the head of the body, or that we are stones in a building with Christ as the cornerstone. But what is the most remarkable to me, and what helps me grasp this, but also makes it feel so incomprehensible, is the fact that our union with Christ is compared to the union among the members of the Trinity when Jesus is praying for believers, when he’s praying for us in the Gospel of John. On, he prays to the Father, and He says, I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as You, Father, are in Me and I in you, that they may also be in us, so that the world may believe that You have sent me the glory that you have given me, I have given them that they may become one even as we are one, I in them and you in Me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that You sent Me and loved them even as you loved me. That is pretty remarkable language. Think

Amy Gannett

of how many times in that passage, Jesus uses the language of union. I in You, You in Me. Might they be one as I am in you, you are in me. So many times again and again and again. That is what he’s asking of the father. It’s all union language, right?

Joanna Kimbrel

And you were talking about how this union is really a way of talking about our salvation. So help us flesh that out a little bit more. What? What is it about our union with Christ that is connected to the fact that we are saved? Yeah?

Amy Gannett

Yeah. I think one of the word pictures that has helped me most, or one of the visuals that has helped me most understand this doctrine, is like picturing salvation like a wagon wheel, where the center spoke is union with Christ, and then you have all these rungs that run out to the outer rim of the re the outer rim of the wheel, yeah, but they’re all supported by that central spoke. They all put their pressure on that central spoke. Salvation can look a bit like that when we talk about union with Christ. A lot of us are familiar with all of these other adjacent doctrines, justification, adoption. We’re familiar with these other word pictures by which we talk about salvation. But the only way we are justified is because we are united to the justifier. The only way that we are adopted is because we are united to the Son of God. The only way we will be glorified, the doctrine of glorification is a part of the conversation of salvation, is because we are united to the glorified Son of God. All of these doctrines that we are maybe more familiar with really find their source and sustenance in this doctrine of union with Christ, all of these salvation benefits, we might say, being justified, being adopted, being glorified, being sanctified, even, are all the results. They’re all benefits that find their source. They find their substance. They are true. Because we are united to Christ. There is no sanctification apart from being united to the Holy One and having the Holy Spirit dwell within us. There is no adoption without first being united to the Son of God. And when you start thinking about salvation in those terms, you go, of course, we are sons and daughters. Why? Because we’re united to the Son of God. How could the father turn away his children when they are united to his very Son, the Son of His love, Jesus even prays that the love that you have for me might be in them. We are united to the Son of God, and because we’re united to his person, all of these benefits of salvation are ours as well. Yeah,

Joanna Kimbrel

you know, when you and I were talking about this beforehand, one thing that you said to me is, you know, there is so much about salvation or about scripture that we understand to a degree that we don’t realize is talking about union with Christ. And when we begin to to look for it, I think we start to see it everywhere in Scripture. You know? I think about when Paul says, I have been crucified with Christ, yeah, we kind of hear that and we think, okay, I guess that means Jesus died for us, which we hear a lot, which is 100% true, right? But that idea that we have been crucified with Christ is again, not just a figure of speech, right? So we are united to him. His death counts for us. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And there’s that in language again. And then, you know, I think that’s why, when Paul is talking in First Corinthians about the resurrection, what does he tell us? He says, if there is no resurrection from the dead, we are, of all people, to be most pity, most pitied. And that I was always so confused about that. Well, why? I don’t understand. He died for our sins. Isn’t that what we need, but we’re united to him, and so if he does not live, neither do we, that’s right. So his resurrection is the hope of our salvation. That’s right. Like you said, His glorification is the hope of. Our future life, that’s right, him, our future glorification with him. That’s right, which is mind

Amy Gannett

blowing. Mind blowing. And I think a lot of times we think about these doctrines and we think, Wow, there’s so much mystery entangled in these doctrines, necessarily so, because we’re talking about eternal things with finite human minds and even yet some unsanctified minds we still can’t imagine the fullness of the depths of the goodness of God on display to us in salvation, because we are limited and we are not yet glorified. We yet don’t see Christ face to face, but I think even if we were to trace back some of the first passages many of us learn as children if we’re raised in Christian homes, some of the first Bible verses that we memorize in Sunday school, some of the first verses we present to a new believer, if they come to faith later In life, we actually see this doctrine on display in those verses, and sometimes by revisiting them with fresh eyes, looking for this in Christ language, all of a sudden we realize, Oh, my goodness, this has always been everywhere in Scripture. So the verse that comes to mind is that those who are in Christ are a new creation. The old has gone, the new has come. There’s that in Christ, there’s that in Christ language. But often we think, oh, oh, like the like a butterfly, like a caterpillar to a butterfly. We draw that analogy to our minds, which is a great analogy, and so true, but we skip right to the second half. The old has gone, the new has come. But why? Those who are in Christ are a new creation because we’re united to the firstborn of creation. Of course, those who are in Christ are a new creation. Of course, the old has gone because you’re in Christ. Of course, the new has come because you’re in Christ. I think we so often skip, we rush past it. You know, in is just such a little preposition. It feels so small, but it is. It’s small, but not insignificant. But I think once our eyes start looking for it, man, we are going to see that language all throughout the New Testament. I

Joanna Kimbrel

think you’re so right. And as you are starting to say these verses, all these other ones are popping into my head. It sounds like we’re okay. So there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Christ, you were chosen in him before, before

Amy Gannett

the foundations of the earth. Mm, hmm. I think everybody’s gonna start reading their Bibles

Joanna Kimbrel

a little bit differently. And, you know, I was reading that. I think it’s around 170 something times that Paul uses some form of that in Christ, in him, and that’s

Amy Gannett

just Paul. That’s just Paul’s epistles. That’s not other epistles. That’s not in the Gospels. That’s like, just Paul. I mean, when we start reading the gospels, we look at John 15, where Jesus is talking about abiding in him as a vine and the branch, and we start looking at that metaphor. And now that’s almost an entire chapter that talks about what it means to be found in Christ, what it means to abide. And isn’t it interesting that that is just a couple chapters away from Jesus’s prayer absolutely has to be united Father and to him and to the Spirit. That’s right, it’s so, it’s so rejuvenating as a person who is so I’m so theologically minded. I’m such a thinker. But then passages like John 15 remind me of what it means to abide with Christ. This is not just forensic information. This is not just being saved on paper. This is not just a doctrine that doesn’t touch my heart. I actually because of the Spirit of God dwelling in me, because the person of Jesus Christ, in His sinless flesh, died and rose again, because the Father sent the Son. I’m actually invited to abide in the Triune God, and because of the plan of salvation from before the dawn of time, we are invited to be united to the Son of God in salvation, which I actually think changes, if we’re talking about one of the places that it touches down in our lives, it not only changes the way that we pray, because I’m gonna commune different with God, because I’m not. I don’t view my prayers as like knocking on heaven’s door and hoping that he answers, I’m already in Christ. So when I open my eyes in the morning and breathe my first breath, I am already in Christ. I’m already as close to Jesus as I could be in this life, my prayers hit his ears instantly, because he is already with me and in me, I’m already united to him, and nothing can shake that my fruitfulness or my lack of fruitfulness, my fruitlessness in my life, is not going to sever me from Christ. Now, it might hinder my relationship the way I experience that union, but it does not change my salvation. Right? So there are a lot of things that we could talk about places it touches down our lives, but one of the places that I’ve seen it be most revolutionary for me in everyday living is in terms of how I share the gospel with others, in terms of how I evangelize. I was in my younger years, I had this, I think a lot of people can identify with this, sort of from my youth group day, sort of had this panicked approach to evangelism, you know, you had to watch for that open door to share the gospel. And then I just sort of like blurted it all out, and it was very like, you pray this prayer, you know, like I had to give the Romans Road, like I had to, you know, lay out all these points. But when we start seeing salvation as something so much bigger than that, so much grander, so much more embedded in every part of the meta narrative of Scripture. The invitation that we’re inviting somebody into is an invitation of communion and union with the God of the universe. And when you start to meditate on that reality, you start seeing in every lost heart, such a hunger to be known, such a hunger to be loved. And evangelism for me, this doctrine, for me, was a pivotal point to say, I’m inviting someone into something they have always wanted, something that they have always craved. They were designed to crave, because we’re designed for union.

Joanna Kimbrel

Yeah, and isn’t that such a more abundant picture of salvation to invite people into when we are evangelizing to

Amy Gannett

them, and it’s so much more full fledged, instead of this, like invitation to pray, a prayer, make a one time decision for Christ, it’s a you’re you’re forecasting before them, this life of union, walking with Jesus their whole life long, which includes things like faith, allegiance, abiding. It just casts this grander vision before them and honestly before ourselves when we think about our own salvation, just this grander view of what it means to be safe but being found in Christ.

Joanna Kimbrel

Yeah, absolutely. And I remember I took a seminary class called union with Christ. I was like, Great, let’s dive in. And I get started, and they start talking about adoption, justification, sanctification, glorification, regeneration. And I’m thinking, Where is union with Christ? And then I realized, oh, adopt this,

Unknown Speaker

right? It’s a thrill picture

Joanna Kimbrel

of our whole lives. So let’s talk a little bit more about how it kind of touches the very practical places of our lives. What does union with Christ mean for us as we seek to fight sin? Yeah, lives.

Amy Gannett

Well, I think one of the biggest misnomers when it comes to sanctification is that I discipline myself into being more like Jesus. It’s this, like, pull myself up by my bootstraps. I’m gonna try harder. I failed yesterday, especially when we’re aware of what theologians have and pastors have called for a long time, besetting sins so sins that we feel under the yoke of slavery too still, even though we know theologically, that we’re not because we have freedom in Christ, because we know that we feel as though we shouldn’t wrestle with the flesh in the way we do, but we have these besetting sins that make us feel entangled. They make us feel enslaved. They make us feel defeated towards our own sin. And a lot of times, a lot of it is a western mindset, but like a cultural message that we also receive about pulling ourselves up and doing it ourselves, we get this idea that if we just tried harder, that we would be able to overcome the flesh on our own and in our own power. And don’t get me wrong, partnering with God in sanctification by His Spirit does require effort, and that’s not opposed to the gospel, but when we realize and remember that we are united to the Holy One, that we are actually joined to the Son of God and His Holiness. The more we understand the implications of that, we will lose our taste for sin, our appetites will actually change. This is why Paul, in one of his letters, talks about how the church, the local church is practicing sexual sin. And he goes so far. He says something kind of bizarre. I don’t know if you recall this passage, but he says, Should I go ahead and unite the person of Jesus to a harlot? And the reader, in modern day is going, wait, what? How did we get there, Paul, like you escalated that so fast. What happened? But what he’s saying is you are united to Jesus. And so when you participate in sexual sin, you are actually doing something way beyond your recognition, because you are united to the Holy One. And so when we realize what it the implications of being united to the Holy One of God. We do lose our taste for sin, but we also recognize that because we are united to the Holy One, it is not in our own strength or our own power that sanctification will come about in our lives. We actually have access to spiritual power beyond measure, and that spiritual power is not for our own personal gain, but for our own personal freedom in Jesus. And so when we talk about fighting these besetting sins, I think those two realities are essential to grasp. One, I actually am free because I’m united to Christ. And as I realize more in my person, in my mind, in my heart, in my soul, what it means to be united to the holy one. I’m going to lose sin, will lose its flavor, right? But also I have access by my union to Christ, to everything I need to walk in freedom from sin, to everything I need to be continually made more holy, like the Son of God is holy,

Joanna Kimbrel

and that even that understanding is so important, because I think that when we believe, I can’t say no to this sin, I can’t turn away from it, then we won’t, we won’t, but we have to realize we have the Power. Doesn’t mean it’s easy, but we have the power to put our sin to death, because it’s not us who’s doing. It’s Christ in us. And

Amy Gannett

because Christ has already put death to death, he already put sin to death, right? And that’s the person who we are united to. Yeah, I think a lot of times we we separate in our minds, somehow, the person and the work of Jesus. So we say I’m saved because Jesus died and rose again, which is true. I mean, that statement is true, and that’s that is how I talk to my kids about salvation. But we almost separate what Jesus did, as if it was something he accomplished, and like passed off to us, like he did on our behalf, instead of giving us himself. I think this can be true of sin as well as suffering. We think that Jesus, at least earned us a suffering for eternity like he can. He did that in what he accomplished on the cross and through the empty tomb, and he, like passed it off to us, but instead, what we see throughout Scripture is that we have a suffering Christ who stays with us in our suffering, that we’re not promised a suffering free life or an instantly sanctified life once we give our lives to Jesus, but we are promised a Jesus who stays with us in both our sanctification and in our suffering. And friend, I’ll just say that is one of the keystones that makes Christianity unique among faiths of the world today, we have a suffering Jesus, who sticks with us when we have failed to be holy and when we can’t see our way out of grief. He sticks with us. Why? Because of union

Joanna Kimbrel

that is such a beautiful comfort, the fact that he not only has suffered and can sympathize with us, but is in it with us. What would you say to the woman who maybe is thinking, you know, if I’m honest, maybe I’d rather have no suffering without Jesus than suffering with him. Yeah.

Amy Gannett

Well, I think in this world we will have trouble, and Jesus promised this. In this world we will have trouble. There just isn’t a suffering free life. There is just no promise of living in this world without the brokenness of sin. There’s a reason. There’s a doctrine called common grace, which is God’s character on display in the world, for anyone to see, even those who are not yet illuminated to the goodness of God’s grace displayed explicitly in Jesus. But the reason the doctrine of common grace exists is because there’s this experience of the common experience of humanity is the common experience of sin. So we live in a broken world. There is no suffering free existence. And so to that woman who says, I would rather have a suffering free life. It’s just not possible. And none of us, we’ve chased it. We’ve all of us maybe have tasted it for a moment and found it to be so incredibly temporary. But since we are going to have trials, Jesus said, In this world, you will have trials. We can take that part of the verse, or we can let Jesus finish and say, In this world, you will have trials. But take heart. I have overcome the world. Why is that second phrase such a comfort to Christians? Why does it bring us such joy and such relief and such hope that he has overcome the world. Why do we care what he has done? Because it is ours, of him. Yeah, it’s true of us. So we can walk through seasons of trial. We can walk through suffering because he has overcome the world, and because he has overcome the world, we will overcome that’s what we see in Revelation, that there are. Who overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and it’s because they were united to the person of Jesus. What a gift that is. So we can have trials, and we will, but we can also take heart when we’ve been united to Jesus that he has overcome. What a comfort that is to

Joanna Kimbrel

us. And on the other side of the overcoming is the indescribable joy that Christ will experience in eternity, that we will experience in eternity, because we’re united to him as well,

Amy Gannett

and because, I think the doctrine of union Christ also highlights in this really beautiful way for us what heaven is, what the new heavens and new earth are really all about. For the longest time in childhood, I sort of viewed, I already showed I viewed salvation as sort of a ticket into heaven. And heaven was this place with, like, all the good stuff, you know. So like, as a kid, you’re like, it’s all the chocolate ice cream you could possibly want to eat. It’s like a million Golden Retriever puppies, like it’s just like this place of like sheer delight all the earthly things that we can imagine, just magnified. But when we consider salvation, not like a child and not in immature ways, we consider our salvation as found in union with Jesus, we see that what makes Heaven Heaven, what makes it what it is, is the presence of Christ. So no longer is that union already and not yet. It’s them that’s where we will experience our full and final union with Jesus. And so heaven becomes this radically different experience than ice cream and puppies. It becomes this place of experiencing the fullness, the fullest reality, the fullest realization of our union with Jesus that we have now we very really have now, but fully and finally realized in the new heavens and new earth. Yeah,

Joanna Kimbrel

absolutely. Well, Amy, when you wake up on a Monday morning and you have a full day ahead of you, and you have family and you have work. How does this doctrine come to bear on those mundane, ordinary moments

Amy Gannett

in the season that I’m in? I’ll just share very honestly, the season that I’m in is a season where I feel as though I wear a lot of hats, and it’s easy for me to lose a sense of who I am in all those hats and all that hat wearing between a mom and a business owner and a ministry leader at our church, between all of these different identities that sometimes seem to compete with one another. I mean, I’m sure you can attest to this, sometimes I don’t know in this moment, am I a mom or am I the director of discipleship at our church? Like I can’t quite tell which hat I’m supposed to wear. Sometimes I feel at war with each other, and I can often enter my day wondering, who am I really? But the doctrine of union with Christ really grounds our identity. It really tells us that we have a secure and safe place in the home of God because we have a secure and safe place in the heart of God because we’re united to the son my church. Somebody in my church might be upset with a decision that the leadership makes, or something like that, and you know that can always like rattle your confidence, but it doesn’t rattle who you are, because you’re welcome because of Christ. And if I do make mistakes, if I do make a bad decision, do you know what I am actually able? I am set free to go and say, You know what, guys, I really messed up. I thought that was the right decision. It wasn’t, or I made that decision, and it was a selfish decision, and I’m sorry. Why can we have the confidence to do that, especially as ministry leaders? I mean, you know, in today’s day and age, it’s such a strange thing for a ministry leader to admit when they’re wrong, accept the fault, and say, I’m just so sorry that I made a poor decision. Why can we do that? Because we are safe and secure in who we are, because that union with Jesus is unshakable and it’s not going to change. So on a Monday morning when I feel like all these identities are warring against one another or pulling me in different directions, I can say, You know what? I’m not ultimately a ministry leader, I’m not ultimately a business owner. I’m not ultimately a mom or a wife. I am ultimately a person saved by Jesus, and He abides in Me and I abide in Him. That is who I am, because I belong to Christ,

Joanna Kimbrel

and that is what we’re talking about. We say identity absolutely Christ, that’s right. We are united to him.

Amy Gannett

And it makes it makes studying scripture. You know that Monday morning you wake up, you’ve got a long day ahead. It makes studying scripture just come alive, because you start seeing how deep scripture goes, you know, for so many years, I read my Bible and felt as though I was growing in an understanding of what Scripture said, and I was, you know, and then I understood this doctrine. I just kept peeling back the layers of what it means to be saved, and it just gets better and better. Sure,

Joanna Kimbrel

yeah. Well, you know, Amy, we could talk about this for hours. We could probably talk about it for days, but this has been so much fun talking to you about this, and I hope that for everyone listening that your brains are spinning and you’re ready to open up your Bibles and look for all the in Christ and all the in hymns.